BBC Radio DJ Swarzy on gospel moments on air, costly obedience and living out loud for Jesus

Picture a gifted evangelist – the out-and-out, can’t-shut-up-about-Jesus type who shares Him at the bus stop and in the supermarket queue. Who comes to mind? Maybe a street preacher, the leader of a Christian ministry or someone employed by a church. You probably weren’t picturing a young BBC radio DJ with thousands of social media followers. 

Meeting Swarzy is a refreshing, discombobulating experience. For years it’s been assumed that banging on about your faith will likely prohibit you from progressing in secular workplaces. Surely, it’s easier to tone it down, become a bit quieter about your beliefs and keep your head down if you want to succeed? An hour with Swarzy Macaly has convinced me it’s time to revisit that theory. 

The presenter began her broadcast career at KISS FM, but says she cut her teeth at church, hosting youth group speakers and “learning the art of making someone comfortable, making them a cup of tea and listening to their story”. After the Grenfell disaster and the murder of George Floyd, she convinced her bosses to let her host the station’s first-ever speech-based radio show, ‘Kiss Life’, making space to discuss topics KISS didn’t usually touch – such as politics, identity and mental health. 

In 2020, she was named one of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s ‘Next Generation Trailblazers’. As well as hosting shows on BBC Radio One and 1Xtra, you might have heard the 33-year-old on BBC Radio 4 or watched her present Songs of Praise. But wherever she is, you’ll find her joyfully pushing boundaries and loudly proclaiming the name of Jesus, even in spaces where you might assume this wouldn’t be possible. “I think there are so many opportunities to bring Jesus to the table. It doesn’t sound odd unless you make it odd,” she says, grinning and laughing loudly.

As an example of this, at a recent Christians in Media conference, Swarzy played a clip from her usual weekend breakfast show – which just happened to fall on Easter Saturday. The DJ managed to enthusiastically segue into a 30-second full gospel presentation, which included telling 1Xtra’s 800,000 listeners how she became a Christian at 14, quoting John 3:16 and declaring: “To have hope beyond the grave – that’s exactly what we’re celebrating tomorrow – it’s Easter Sunday! New life – and that is really, really good news!” before seamlessly throwing to a shout-out to everyone texting into the show. 

It is this winsome, wholehearted joy and sincerity – not to mention her boundless energy – that has opened so many doors for Swarzy. In parts of the Church, we’ve swallowed the assumption that we need to tone down our faith in order to earn the right to share a little snippet every now and again. But Swarzy is living proof that it doesn’t have to be this way. From the moment she became a Christian, she “wouldn’t stop talking about Jesus”, she says. And while she speaks honestly about the opportunities this may have cost her, she’s also clear that God has given her so many more. 

Tell us about your faith journey. Did you grow up in a Christian home?

I love this question! No, I did not grow up in a Christian home – my mum and dad are not Christians. By God’s grace, I got caught shoplifting when I was 14 years old…

Was that a normal thing for you? 

Not the getting caught part! I was quite good at shoplifting, but I made a mistake that day – I left the hanger in the changing room! The shopkeeper locked the door and was on the phone to the police. I remember thinking: I’m in real trouble here. I just said: “God, if You are real, get me out of this situation. I will never shoplift again, and I will follow You for the rest of my days.” As soon as I said “Amen”, the shopkeeper put down the phone, opened the door and said: “Just go.”

There was a church down my road, and I went along to their youth group that Friday with a friend from school. It was a testimony night, loads of young people were going to the front, saying: “This is the nonsense I was up to, and this is how the Lord saved me. I’ve put my faith in Him and I don’t carry around that guilt or baggage anymore. I’m safe, I’m secure, I’m loved.” I thought: I want a bit of that!

From that day on, I wouldn’t stop talking about Jesus. I used to love hosting my school assembly. Teachers would say: “Right, we know you’re Christian. Don’t talk about Jesus.” I’d say: “Yes, Miss,” get the mic, go on stage and be like: “Guys! The Lord is real! This is what He’s done in my life…” Loads of people in my school started to become Christians and join the youth group. It was such an amazing time.

We’re hearing lots about Gen Z being curious about God. How important is it that churches have spaces where young people can come – like you did – if they’re looking for God?

When a young person walks through the doors of your church, you don’t know what story they’re carrying. My story was: I just want to shake off this shame. I wanted a second chance. That’s why I was there. 

My message is: “Jesus is joy”

My mum and dad were divorced and home was tricky. I just wanted something new – and I got more than that. I got Jesus Christ. I got God Himself. When you find that treasure, everything else just falls away.

You’re very confident communicating your Christian faith – do you feel you have an evangelist’s heart?

I give God thanks, you know, because He gives me great stories to tell – not because I’m great, but because people respond to real stories, real people. I do have an evangelistic heart in the sense that I was so unchurched, and if God can pull me in, what can He do for someone else?

How did your parents respond to you becoming a Christian?

My mum was not happy. She thought I’d been brainwashed. She was like: “You’re only 14. Go and enjoy life.” But my experience was: Hope is here, love is here, joy is here. I didn’t find it in school or anywhere else; I found it in church. 

All of my life, actually, it has been a real wrestle – even to get baptised. My youth leader was like: “Honour your mum. She doesn’t want you to get baptised until you’re 16.” I was ready, but I waited. She came – she didn’t really say much afterwards – but I was proud that she was there, and that I honoured her by waiting. 

If I don’t stand up for what I believe in, then what’s the point of making noise about being a Christian?

What’s the biggest difference God makes to your life?

If I wasn’t a Christian, I would be so insecure – especially in the job I do. I’m not where I’m meant to be. I haven’t got as many followers as I should have. I’m not tall enough, not pretty enough, not confident enough. I still have insecurities as a Christian, but how much more insecure would I be?

Comparison is the thief of joy – and I think God has given me a special love for joy. I love John 10:10: “I’ve come to give life and life to the fullest.” I wouldn’t have joy if I wasn’t a Christian, and I’d have deep insecurities. 

When you’re freelancing, you don’t know where your next pay cheque is coming from. I’d constantly be anxious. I’m grateful to God I’ve escaped that, not because I don’t have reasons to be anxious, but because I believe in a God who gives me a peace that surpasses that anxiety. 

You’re a BBC radio presenter, among many other things – did you always want to be on the radio?

In Year Eight, I told my teacher I was going to be on TV. When I became a Christian and got involved with the youth group, I joined the Monday night drama class. Over time, I practised opening, introductions, interviews – not because I thought I was gonna get into radio and TV, really, just because I loved going to youth group, and whatever they asked me to do, I would do it. 

[When I was 22] I won a competition to become a radio presenter. I used to love listening to KISS FM, so when an opportunity to audition came up, my boyfriend – now husband – was like: “You should give it a go.” When you go into a radio studio, there’s buttons, there’s mics, and I didn’t know what I was doing, but church taught me the art of making someone comfortable, finding common ground, making them a cup of tea and listening to their story. It’s amazing what you learn in church that you don’t realise you will use in your everyday job. 

Even within a job at a secular radio station, you manage to bring your faith to the foreground. Is that something you set out to do, or does it just come up naturally?

A bit of both, really. I’ve learned that if you don’t talk about Jesus early enough, He will sound odd down the line. I mean, God forbid someone finds out that I’m a Christian five years into my job! I want them to know so early on that, by the time you ask me to do something, you’re gonna say: “I don’t know if Swarzy is gonna be comfortable with that because she believes X.”

I think there are so many opportunities to bring Jesus to the table. It doesn’t sound odd unless you make it odd. And when you make it normal, it just comes as part of the package. People know I’m a Christian, and that’s why I do – or don’t do – certain things like Halloween. Wherever I’ve worked, I’ve always said: “I don’t celebrate Halloween. I celebrate Jesus, who’s the light of the world.” Funnily enough, recently, on one show, they were like: “We wouldn’t ask Swarzy to do this job because she doesn’t celebrate things of the dark.” They didn’t want to put me in a compromising situation! How lovely is that?!

Has there ever been a time when you’ve had to say: “I’m not comfortable with this type of music or event. I’m really sorry, I can’t do this.”

Yeah, loads – and every time, I tremble. I’ll give an example. There was a song on radio called ‘Alpha Omega’, by a well-known rapper. I played it on the breakfast show without really thinking. In the first line, the rapper says: “I am the Alpha and the Omega.” And in my spirit, I said: “Oh, Lord, I am so sorry. I know that is not true. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, not this rapper who was born and one day will die. He is not the beginning and the end.” 

I just said: “God, if you are real, get me out the situation. I will never shoplift again”

As I went home, I felt the Lord say to me: “You got caught out once. Don’t get caught out twice. Next week, I don’t want you to play this song, because your conscience is not clear.” So I said to the team: “Look, I’m a Christian. I believe Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. I don’t believe this rapper is, and so I can’t play this song in good faith.” Now, you can’t mess with playlists in this industry. There’s a whole line of presenters waiting for your job, so if you don’t want to do it, move on. But, by God’s grace, they said: “We’ll take the song off your show.” 

I’ve lost the battle as well, over another song on another platform. But if I don’t stand up for what I believe in, then what’s the point of making noise about being a Christian? I lost that job. As a Christian, you have to be prepared for both – the miracle of the Daniel moment, where the lion is not hungry and you get to go another day – and other days that are more like Hebrews 11, where people put their life on the line, and it cost them. 

It’s a costly thing to carry your cross. We believe in a God who hears and answers prayer. But if it means giving up my job for the gospel, may I make the right decision.

That must be hard as a freelancer. Have you ever doubted God’s provision?

God says that He provides for all of my needs out of His glorious riches [see Philippians 4:19]. So, I have to believe that if one door closes, the Lord will open another – that He will still care for me, as He does the sparrows and the lilies [see Matthew 6]. 

I don’t want to be earning money and displeasing Jesus. That’s not the goal here. Wherever He’s got me, He intends to use it for my good.

It’s great to have that security, rather than carrying the anxiousness of trying to self-promote. Social media doesn’t help, does it? You can see what everybody else is doing all the time…

Yeah – and only the highlights! In one sense, you want to scream about the highlights. But it’s such a double-edged sword. We need to be transparent about how many hours [we] stay awake at night worrying, the emailing, the admin – as well as the high moments. 

Social media is very noisy. You’re open to anyone and anything talking to you, and [it’s important] to go away and be like: “Does this match up with what the word of God says? Is this gonna feed me, or is it just gonna drain me?” Now, I find that if I’ve been on socials, I almost crave silence. Sometimes my husband comes home and I’m cooking in silence. He’s like: “Are you alright? It’s so quiet in here.” And I’m like: “It’s not silent to me, because my head is loud.” 

Have you ever struggled with social media?

All the time. Growing up, social media was different – it was just memes and cute pictures. Now it’s like an online CV. I mean, I try to make it as funny and just ‘me’ as possible, but I’m aware my next employer is looking at it and thinking: This girl could be great for this job, or: No, we’re not going to have her do this. 

In this industry, you can’t afford to be blase with your socials. My message is: “Jesus is joy”, and I hope and pray that my page shows that, whether I’m on radio, at home, whatever I’m doing. 

I love that strapline! ‘Jesus is joy’ could be your life motto. Are there ever moments where you don’t feel joyful?

All the time! I think some people do think that I just switch this on. But for me, when I [think of the moment I]first became a Christian, I get emotional because I’m so undeserving of this. I literally was blind, and now I can see! 

As well as music, you also have a heart for justice. Tell us about that.

Even before I became a Christian, I was very much like: This is wrong – be it racial injustice or my brother taking my toy! I fell in love with Martin Luther King Jr and read so much of his work – stories of young people being rounded up and thrown into jail, to the point where the jails were so full they had to let the people go. It was like Moses and God saying: “I will fight on your behalf” (see Exodus 14:14). I didn’t know at the time, but that’s a bit of heaven touching earth.

When Grenfell happened, there was a church group in east London who were going [to volunteer]. When we got there, the fire was still burning. It was such an eye-opening moment. People were failed who ought not to have been failed, not in London, not in this borough of all boroughs. Seeing people on the ground, being the hands and feet of Jesus – the Bible became really real. It put a new fire in me. I was at KISS FM at the time, and I said: “If we don’t talk about Grenfell, about George Floyd, about all the things that people’s lives are consumed by – and we just put our fingers in our ears and play music…I don’t feel right doing that. I feel like a fraud.” I’m really grateful to God that He gave me words in those moments. And good producers who gave platform to those things.

People might assume that commercial radio won’t want to touch difficult topics, or talk about faith. Yet you seem to have been able to marry those together. Is that a grace that God has given you?

I think the picture is always people. This isn’t politics. This isn’t an agenda. This is people. I’ve just got around it by saying: “Jesus cares for people. Jesus is a people person.” And if you pitch people first, no matter what story you’re trying to tell, often people say: “Oh, go on, then!”   

To hear the full interview listen to Premier Christian Radio at 8pm on 25 April or download ‘The Profile’ podcast premierchristianity.com/theprofile

All photos by Ruth Towell